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Author Topic: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops  (Read 1601 times)

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Offline Schprocket

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J, y'know how we were talking about online co-op vs bots on actual online maps?

Well, CoD Black Ops has it. And you don't need no stoopid Friends Codes to add anyone you meet in-game.



Quote
Combat Training is a new game mode in Call of Duty: Black Ops.

It serves as online multiplayer for those who are new to it and those who want to try out new tactics or practice with different weapons.

It features a separate ranking and unlock system with AI opponents instead of online enemies. It can be played cooperatively.


The players can change how difficult it is to kill the AI opponents much like single player's difficulties: Recruit, Regular, Hardened, and Veteran.

The bots can play on any map in Free-For-All and Team Deathmatch games, now with the option of playing Hardcore or Normal.

One interesting note, however, is that Combat Training only allows the players to practice on Free-For-All and Team Deathmatch modes, and not more tactic-based modes like Search & Destroy.


Semi-distracted commentary of combat-training mode:

Offline JoomX

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Re: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2011, 12:19:58 PM »
Off to check it out, S.  But I just got Modern Warfare to go with World At War. ???

Looks like Black Ops would be a good one, but the video says it has the online ranking system too.  Like GoldenEye?
A computer once beat me at chess, but as it turns out it was no match for me at kickboxing... ;)

Offline Schprocket

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Re: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2011, 06:14:10 PM »
Yup. Like GoldenEye and every preceding CoD back to Modern Warfare (and maybe even earlier)

So in the Combat Training you rank up in exactly the same manner as online versus mode, giving you an opportuniy to figure out how the "perks" (upgrades) and cash-earning/spending works (less the wagering aspect - yep, there's wagering in the Multiplayer Vs modes to help you try earn faster cash)

From what I can gather the weapons-related perks unlock things like rail-mounts for weapons or new guns become available for purchase, whilst the cash is used to eitehr buy or 'pimp' the weapon with extras but you only buy a specific upgrade for a specific gun. "Faster cash" by way of wagering means being able to buy the extras for mounting on weapons quicker, similar to the way you can wager points for bot-pimping, etc, in ExciteBots.

P.S. You could either (a) trade them in or (b) add them to the collection of games you'll pull out and play again when you have a handle on CoD:BO...

"Hur-hur-hurrrr... Oi juss sed "BO"...." - Hieronymous P. Gumby
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 06:23:11 PM by Schprocket »

Offline FLASH

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Re: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2011, 07:57:55 PM »
Goldeneye(original for N64) is what CoD based there games after. And as for Black Ops, I would wait until MW3 comes out and get that.

Offline JoomX

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Re: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2011, 08:52:21 PM »
I've been doing all kinds of searches for the 'right kind' of FPS for the Wii, and not finding much.

I just want a direct port of Call of Duty #1 for the Wii.  With downloadable mod maps.  That's all I want.  Well, that and a bag of chips. 8)

Why can't I have that? >:(
A computer once beat me at chess, but as it turns out it was no match for me at kickboxing... ;)

Offline JoomX

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Re: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2011, 02:01:48 PM »
Finally going to be trying out 'Killing Floor' tonight sometime, hopefully.  Everything I've seen on it is looking like a Joom kind of FPS... ;)
A computer once beat me at chess, but as it turns out it was no match for me at kickboxing... ;)

Offline JoomX

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Re: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2011, 03:02:13 PM »
I hate Steam, and Killing Floor is Steam.  I don't want to buy Steam on CD that will install, then download a 2GB game.  Activation on the net is one thing, but there's nothing on the box about the 2GB download.

I said after Half Life 2 that I'd never buy another Steam based game, but apparently I was mistaken.  Downloading now because I bought it and it looks good, but I don't like it... >:(
A computer once beat me at chess, but as it turns out it was no match for me at kickboxing... ;)

Offline JoomX

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Re: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2011, 03:21:43 PM »
Sprok, I sent you a guest pass for Killing Floor, but if you don't want to download it I understand.  Don't know how long the guest pass is for, but it's supposed to let you run the full game (online too) for a limited time...


Edit:  This thing really sucks up the bandwidth,  one hour later - 1GB down and 1 to go.  I'm going for coffee...
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 04:06:14 PM by JoomX »
A computer once beat me at chess, but as it turns out it was no match for me at kickboxing... ;)

Offline JoomX

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Re: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2011, 04:56:10 PM »
As a hobbyist game developer (when once upon a time I had time) I still hang out at some game dev sites.  Today I came across this interesting thread from a veteran developer.

Developer:

I had today a discussion with a friend about the upcoming BattleField3, i'm a bit worried about blindly ordering a game when the prequel (Bad company 2) left me with a mixed feeling.

Long story short our discussion drifted toward what he believes was the root of my complains about Bad company 2 "You didn't play it long enough"

His argument was that in a game like a Battlefield game, it's normal that a new player gets completely obliterated, and doesn't get to have fun, until he hit a certain level of skill.

In my opinion, a good game is providing a new player with fun nearly imediately after he gets a feel for the controls, a good example would be TF2, you might not rack up kills and top the scoreboard on your first session, but there are plenty of ways to be useful to your team as a beginner.

I ended the discussion pretty quickly because to me it just felt like a mix of trolling and elitism, but a lot of games tend to use the "rite of passage" method, for example, by providing veteran players with better weapons and perks, or in the case of some MMOs, by making you understand that the "real game" is once you reach level X, so your goal is to level up as fast as you can to reach this point where you can enter the "big boys court".

You can imagine that i'm a little biased on this topic, but it's also a bit of a dilemna, you want to offer players a certain satisfaction for getting better at the game, but in a competitive game, how do you ensure that new players won't get their experience of the game destroyed by older players?

Also I hope this will dispell the beliefs that i am "that game designer who hate players"

-------------------------

Response from one of the game engine developers:

Make it fun fast. Get the player enjoying it as quickly as possible. There are a lot of games to play and it is really easy to lose players, especially if concentrating on the digital download market or providing a demo.

You need to provide perks to your existing audience as well. They are the people that keep playing your game day after day. But you had to hook them at some point as well, and if your game wasn't fun to begin with, why did they stick with it?

-------------------------

Reply back from original poster:

I agree i think peoples should have fun in the game right from the start and not after they "worked" for it. Of course becoming a good playe doesn't happen overnight but the journey should be more important than the destination.

I made this topic because i feel there are a LOT of games today that seems to add some form of early game grinding to keep players hooked, not because they find the game fun, but by pushing further away the time where they will be able to compete on an equal footing with the older players.

If you look at the battlefield serie for example, unlocks either make you a more efficient player, or give you more gameplay elements (as a medic you have to unlock your reviving paddles). As a result, whena player unlock magnum bullets or body armor, he's basically getting a straight upgrade over a new player.

On the other hand in TF2 Most weapons and gadgets you unlock are essentially sidegrades, or offer a specific advantage for a big tradeoff, so in TF2 they are more variations that reward a specific style for a price (direct hit rocketlauncher: more damage if you touch directly your target, but less splash radius)

---------------------------
===============
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Apparently I'm not the only one after all... 8) :P
A computer once beat me at chess, but as it turns out it was no match for me at kickboxing... ;)

Offline FLASH

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Re: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2011, 09:14:35 PM »
I could ask some of my friends what a good game is for PC Joom. I have noticed that a lot of people are switching from console to PC gaming, that is until a new ground breking console comes out. As a console gamer, I have decided instead of getting MW3, I'm going to get BF3. I played the BETA today and it was great! 8)

Offline JoomX

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Re: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2011, 10:52:41 PM »
Just tried out Killing Floor, Steam and all.  15 minutes to load up, played around for a few minutes, then 20 to close down the game and Steam.  Hard drive running steady all the time.  Never did close down, after about 20 minutes it just crashed.  Fun looking game, but..........seriously? ::)
A computer once beat me at chess, but as it turns out it was no match for me at kickboxing... ;)

Offline Schprocket

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Re: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2011, 02:37:27 AM »
Flash - was that the PS3 or 360 beta?

Joom, some interesting ideas posted.

Some people want to play but don't want to get pwned by the better players (and the no-lifers) whom that "makes players more efficient" approach favours too heavily.

So if their value on their own time means it's quicker and easier to flip some dude 20 bucks via Paypal to unlock the crazy stuff (and more) then the anonimity and poor anti-hacking controls mean it's going to be a lot fun - which is what they bought the game for -  for some time, and why should they care about anybody ese?

So in a way that particular "Battlefield" approach has probably not so much created the 'black-market' in hacks but has provided more of a fertile environment for hacking to be profitable.




P.S. a 2 Gb download for that much fun, J? I think I'll stick with Black Ops.... ;)

Offline Schprocket

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Re: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2011, 02:44:56 AM »
My young bloke's back home and to summarise his view of Black Ops (and he's the 'ace' of the Schprocket clan - in hs own mind...)

"Combat training is really good because it gives you an opportunity to check out the multiplayer maps against bots of various difficulties without getting pooned in the process" - sounds like your wish has kind of come true, Tez...

And my other son showed me how you create not only online private matches but that those online private matches can be co-op Combat Training (and possibly co-op + vs Combat Training) against the bots.

Wooooooooooooooot!!!

EDIT

Joom! online Co-op vs bots rocks! These bots aren't your typical BF42 / BF2 dumb-bots, these are reasonably challenging! Currently in a co-op with the young bloke with the bots set to regular and the buggers play like decent (but not uber) human opposition!!!
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 06:14:45 AM by Schprocket »

Offline JoomX

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Re: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2011, 12:59:58 PM »
Ohhhh, you're making me want to order it, S.  I'll take another look...
A computer once beat me at chess, but as it turns out it was no match for me at kickboxing... ;)

Offline Schprocket

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Re: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2011, 01:14:15 PM »
The last round of co-op we played, I set the bots to Veteran (highest).
Even with the two boys on the team, we were beaten.

I would say as far as online multiplayer goes, it's nowhere near as frustrating as Goldeneye.... and you can set up private rooms for versus matches but I don't think they count for anything (else you'd get exploiters ranking up with mates to earn specific perks...)

I played the co-op with the boys for a few hours and am currently at level 18 but when playing non co-op I started from level 1 (separately tracked stats) BUT because I sort of knew the maps (and the controls don't bug me :) ) I reckon I fared pretty well. Not ranking up as fast as I did against the bots of course but I didn't feel like I was fighting everything which is how I'd imagine your Goldeneye experience has been...

Offline JoomX

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Re: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2011, 01:51:58 PM »
I reckon I fared pretty well. Not ranking up as fast as I did against the bots of course but I didn't feel like I was fighting everything which is how I'd imagine your Goldeneye experience has been...

Yup, I still try out GE from time to time just for kicks, but it's a little like raking leaves in a tornado.  I'll definitely give BO another look.  And we'll still have to get together again on GE just for kicks so it doesn't seem like a total waste...
A computer once beat me at chess, but as it turns out it was no match for me at kickboxing... ;)

Offline Schprocket

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Re: The search for a Joom-friendly console FPS continues: CoD Black Ops
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2011, 09:05:21 PM »
I think that the only semi-regret purchase I have is CoD 4 because it's Wiimote/Nunchuk only and I'm too familiar with the Classic Controller layout (like K&M) with it to want to use it too often... :)

{edit}

Comparison of stats:

Combat Training
Level: 18
Time: 2h 52 minutes
K:D Ratio: 1.58
Bot Difficulty: Regular (60% of time) Hardened (37%) Veteran (3%)
Maps played: All

Multiplayer
Level: 10
Time: 1.7h (found this under Challenges when unlocked at level 10)
K:D Ratio: 0.63 (this is my average online K:D for new FPSs. Unfortunately it rarely gets better... :) )
Lag: Generally the worst on server, to date (first or second red bar - but what I'm used to from CoD4 on the PS3)
Maps played: Three (voting sees the 'favourites' played over and over)

{/edit}
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 01:21:24 AM by Schprocket »